Transcript (Full Episode)

00:10.68

joshnl (Josh Lehman)

Hello and welcome to episode 5 culinary milestones in Canadian cooking. I'm Josh Lehman a third-year honours history quote major at the University of Guelph where this interview is being recorded today. I'm delighted to be talking with Court Desautels who will be joining us from Guelph, Ontario. Court is the president and CEO of the Neighborhood Group of Companies and has been the Group Leader since 2016. Welcome, Court. It is an honor to meet you and have you in this interview.

 

00:33.41

Court Desautels

Thanks for having me, Josh.

 

00:42.63

joshnl

First of all, why did you agree to do this project with our class and the university?

 

00:47.77

Court Desautels

Why I thought it's quite interesting and something that's um, you know, talk about the culinary history and looking at the different influences across Canada to you know what? What's kind of the piece of fabric that's created is what our culinary landscape looks like today.

 

01:05.33

joshnl

Mhm.

 

01:05.58

Court Desautels

And so that's ah and it's a journey that I've been on as well. Ah, over the course of the past, you know multiple years since you know joining the group and just keeps you know it's a never-ending search. You know it's quite fascinating to see the different influences that have shaped what we know what? we.

 

01:14.93

joshnl

Mhm.

 

01:24.47

Court Desautels

How we view food and so that's one.

 

01:26.31

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really interesting to see how all the things that make Canada come together come in different ways and how they interact with each other. So this next question is more geared towards what you're doing with the restaurants and the group. How do you ensure that the food you purchase for your restaurants is safe for patrons to eat?

 

01:59.44

Court Desautels

How do we ensure that Well we have yeah we we obviously for a few different things Why we rely on our suppliers to make sure that they follow the few diligence and ensuring that you know the where the foods being produced. It's clean. It's inspected facilities, etc, etc. Um.

 

02:00.46

joshnl

Yes.

 

02:05.43

joshnl

Mhm.

 

02:17.27

Court Desautels

We also deal with some you know directly to farm as well and that is always you know going in checking out the facility first meeting with them seeing what their what their protocols are and then plus we also have health. Um.

 

02:34.35

Court Desautels

You know we have strict health and safety guidelines within the restaurant itself as well on top of that so you know there's lots of lots of checkpoints along the way to ensure that and I think one of the most important things is that because we buy local. It's easy for us to do those things and so for us too.

 

02:41.72

joshnl

Mhm.

 

02:49.66

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

02:53.78

Court Desautels

You know, be poor. There's less you know about hand-touching items. You know we're not going through multiple distribution channels to get food to our door. Um, you know that provides a level of safety that we've always had, um.

 

02:57.17

joshnl

Mhm.

 

03:11.66

Court Desautels

Appreciate it and that we know something that we promote as well because yeah pressure to food the safer it is and plus we know the regulations in Ontario or in Canada are much stricter than many other places where food can come from.

 

03:19.18

joshnl

Mhm.

 

03:26.83

joshnl

Yeah, yeah of course yeah, it's a lot. It's what I found interesting when I read about the neighborhood group and how you guys source locally. Compared to other restaurants that I've heard of like in my hometown here and even when I've traveled. It's nice to see restaurants that are using their towns or cities that they live in for the food that they make so it can be as close as. It is in the town as possible or the city is possible. Yeah, yeah of course yeah I feel like that would feel like patrons would appreciate that and they would find it nice that they're not getting food from all these different places and it's coming from.

 

04:01.62

Court Desautels

That's right, Yeah, there's a just bigger level of transparency.

 

04:16.72

joshnl

Our next question is how does food culture create a sense of National identity to you?

 

04:27.72

Court Desautels

Yeah, well, that's how you know how culture creates a sense of national identity. Well one I think you know depending if you were you know if you're indigenous, you're the first people here. Obviously, that's the most.

 

04:33.10

joshnl

Mhm.

 

04:45.62

Court Desautels

You know that that is the food culture. That's what How everything originated from um so that is the actual identity of where everything would have started here when you look at you know Canada being a relatively new country and you know if you if you. Go way far back. You know the first people on the shores would have been ah, the Norseman would have been the first visitors. So the Vikings would have been here then we had the Portuguese you know the you know English he French or vice versa and you'd have to look at that.

 

05:09.60

joshnl

Mhm.

 

05:23.10

Court Desautels

You know they bring their own cultural identity here with their culinary acumen but they would have to utilize ingredients that they would have found here right? and so that's ah, that's where that identity starts to shape so you have those differences.

 

05:33.92

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

05:41.41

joshnl

Um.

 

05:41.88

Court Desautels

Cultural influences that shape how people cook and eat food here. So they don't maybe have the same ingredients but they may use the same flavor components or to cook the same or or cooking styles and so that's where I find it really interesting to see how things change from one culture.

 

05:51.56

joshnl

Mhm.

 

06:00.67

Court Desautels

Ah, from there you know someone's Homeland and then coming here and then utilizing ingredients and kind of adapting to what other settlers have used and you know looking at connections with indigenous people. You know it's quite fascinating One one. Great example of that too is you know. I Wouldn't say a great example but an example of that would be things like bannic where we assume that's a Indigenous food and what it actually is not. It was a Scottish food that dated back to you know you know I'm not sure of the date. But

 

06:26.24

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

06:39.49

joshnl

Um, yeah, um.

 

06:40.16

Court Desautels

Back to the Orkney Islands in Scotlands and that you know was a ration that the Scots and indigenous people were given they were just given some basic rations of flour and ah you know some sugar and some fats and they learned to you know. Scottish were the ones who taught the indigenous people this is how you make these things um and then it was adopted by indigenous people and everybody was saying oh banneck is that such an indigenous food and says well no, that's a symptom of you know, an awful point in our history.

 

07:01.35

joshnl

Mhm.

 

07:18.61

Court Desautels

Um, or things started to get very difficult in our history and that was a you know symptom of a cultural influence just based out of necessity and survival.

 

07:29.15

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, a lot of I feel like when you look at the history of countries, even older ones or newer ones. There's always times like these where things aren't so great and we sometimes get things mixed up but it's also one of the things I've admired most about Canada. Is how all the different cultures that have sort of had a part in making Canada Canada or different roles in Canada's history and how they've come together and we see that now still even hundreds of years before later.

 

07:58.87

Court Desautels

Um, yeah, and and yeah and everybody always wonders like Canada doesn't really have an identity of food identity Canada is a massive place right? and you have different places where people settled, you know.

 

08:06.72

joshnl

Yeah.

 

08:18.73

Court Desautels

And there's different foods that are available. It's not ah you know it's not you know and European country which you know a fraction of the size of this of this country even a fraction of the size of the province of Ontario or the province bc you know more or less the size of a pi or or nova mosha right.

 

08:33.19

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

08:38.49

Court Desautels

And you know those provinces I'd say have more of a food identity because of the size and that's how you have to look at different cultures around the world. Then you know the smaller spot. Yeah, there's more of an identity there. Canada is massive. It has a huge, you know, massive landscape.

 

08:44.70

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

08:57.87

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

08:58.00

Court Desautels

And burying. Um, you know topography allows for different things to grow and that's how you know we can't just say Canada we should be proud of the fact that we had so different and diverse.

 

09:08.42

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, even when like I've I've I've looked at food in like out on the East Coast it's so different from what we have.

 

09:20.28

joshnl

Over here and even like in the prairies. There's different food on the West Coast There's different food up in the territories. There's different foods. There's so many different parts to what we see Canadian food as but at least in my eyes

 

09:34.10

Court Desautels

Yeah.

 

09:38.17

joshnl

Many different things, many different food identities that come together to create the Canadian one. My next question is again more towards the restaurants. How can food waste be eliminated in Canada?

 

09:44.61

Court Desautels

Um, yes.

 

09:56.50

Court Desautels

Um, yeah, that's ah, that's a big question because that is a tricky one that we're always trying to figure out. Um you know food waste obviously starts at what what how 1 is how we perceive food and how we're treating food so you know obviously starts at the at the you know. Production level whether it's farming or processing I guess or turning something into something else. There's you know there's waste associated with that and it's not just based on. You know the process because it creates a lot of ways. It's a perception.

 

10:16.46

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

10:31.30

joshnl

Mhm.

 

10:35.39

Court Desautels

That you know things need to be perfect and if they're not um, they will not be consumed by the consumer so they need to find other other means to do it or it's just easier to waste something so there's a lot of systemic issues and in that there is. And then when you know you come to a restaurant. For example, you know restaurants can't survive if we're wasting food. They really can't and I think you know the old days of restaurants' use and traditional styles of cooking. I say French styles of cooking were.

 

10:57.13

joshnl

Mhm. Um, yeah.

 

11:12.99

Court Desautels

There was a lot of waste because you know you're cutting potatoes into perfect cylinders and you know etc. But you're still utilizing some of the scraps. Ah for things as foods become more expensive. We need to value it. There's ah, a greater value and people perceive it as a monetary value and.

 

11:16.49

joshnl

Mhm.

 

11:29.15

joshnl

Um.

 

11:32.54

Court Desautels

We're starting to finally realize that there is an environmental value as well and because you know food waste creates methane gas and waste issues and there's all the inputs I go into to bruise in something but restaurants in general we can't afford to waste food. Um.

 

11:49.42

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

11:52.54

Court Desautels

However, there's a perceived perception of what needs to be on a plate. It's a one size fits all model so a plate of fish and chips. Um if you know a smaller plate is sufficient for probably fifty-sixty percent of the population and the other.

 

11:56.78

joshnl

Mhm.

 

12:12.40

Court Desautels

You know 20% needs a massive portion of fish ships to see they have value and another 20% or 30% need even less than that and then the average person. So somebody who's older and needs less food and just like somebody who's younger. Ah so.

 

12:21.12

joshnl

Mhm.

 

12:31.65

Court Desautels

So we do. We approach a 1 size fit all model and that creates a lot of plate waste. So maybe waste is not made to manufacture that dish. But there's plate waste that is a symptom of that model. That is just scraped and put into garbage or people take the leftovers home but then they never eat them right? There's ah, there's a there's a you know an issue with leftovers. You know I remember as a kid. It's like oh we gonna have leftovers saying you're oh I don't want to eat leftovers right? It's like this.

 

12:50.85

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

12:58.91

joshnl

Um.

 

13:03.65

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I remember that.

 

13:07.99

Court Desautels

Like yay leftovers because you know the food was so good. It might even taste better today and and so I think there's there's that issue I think the um ah food literacy for people or culinary literacy. And it's something. That's not really taught in schools and we're seeing a symptom of that now. So people don't know how to what to do with these fruits and vegetables. Um that they may have left over or might be you know going you know quote unquote bad. So people see it as a bruise or a blemish on something. It's like I don't want to eat. That whole thing is probably rotten and so we just have this perception that everything should be perfect. Um, and we've disassociated ourselves so far from the actual ah production cycle of food.

 

13:43.94

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

13:58.76

Court Desautels

We don't appreciate all the different inputs and everything else as well. So it's a consumerism issue in the end. That's we need to change the perception around food that nothing that everything does has to be perfect. Leftovers are great. There's ways to extract.

 

13:59.60

joshnl

Mhm.

 

14:16.98

Court Desautels

Ah, lots of food you know, unless it's unbelievably bad and rotten and it's not going to kill you. There's ways to take bunses off and utilize them. So um, that really answers the question but you know food waste is its ah it really comes down to.

 

14:23.40

joshnl

Mhm.

 

14:36.65

Court Desautels

And the public's perception of what food is which is changing people are becoming more aware. But I think there needs to be a lot more work done at the elementary level in schools to teach kids about cooking and food and create a little more excitement around it.

 

14:54.10

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, yeah I completely agree and that does answer my question. Yeah, when me and my girlfriend go to restaurants here sometimes, I'll see like a table that people just left and there will be a

 

14:55.37

Court Desautels

And understanding.

 

15:11.47

joshnl

Surprising amount of food left over that they didn't eat or was left untouched and it's a little weird to me that people would order all that food and spend the money on it but not finish it.

 

15:12.90

Court Desautels

Yeah.

 

15:30.20

Court Desautels

Yeah.

 

15:30.31

joshnl

They're not getting their money's worth but I can find people who see it differently. But it's ah and it's weird how people view food because I remember in our remember presentation that we did in grade six at home and. We're talking about how people waste food if it has a little blemish on it like you said or if it just looks a little funny and we just throw it out immediately. Don't give it a second chance but in reality, if we're eating it and not. It's told not to look at but to eat. We just. Waste the perfectly good um, perfectly good. Whatever it was and yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

16:13.25

Court Desautels

Yeah, yeah, that's it right? He doesn't even know what to do with it. You're like oh I probably should need that we haven't been taught to yeah, what's the smell of it? What are the dangers of having something like that you know proper care and storage of certain items and so.

 

16:24.90

joshnl

Mhm. Um, yeah.

 

16:32.21

Court Desautels

You know I'm guilty of a 2. I need to keep reminding myself that no, that's fine. You know we're very cautious in the restaurants especially and so you know I think that that's the 1 thing in the restaurants. You're very very cognizant of what the products look like.

 

16:37.74

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

16:47.33

joshnl

Mhm.

 

16:48.84

Court Desautels

There are times when product comes into the restaurant I'm sure we could salvage most of it. But we're also paying a premium you know or for the full weight of that product and we're going to say hey you know 10 even you know 20 or even 10% of it is not usable. Um.

 

16:56.97

joshnl

Um, down.

 

17:05.52

Court Desautels

You know our automatic thing is like we call a supplier and say we can't use this come pick it up as opposed to saying hey we can use 50% of this um, can you give us a discount on it? So we're not sending a truck to come pick it up and then replacing it and then that just gets tossed into the garbage right one.

 

17:16.23

joshnl

Mhm. Yeah, found.

 

17:22.81

Court Desautels

When potentially 80% of it was still usable or 90% was still usable. Um, but we ah you know have to be cautious and there's also a lot of systems in place and if we had a food inspector that came in and said why are you accepting a product like this we would get bing for it as well too. So there's a lot of different layers and of complexity in it.

 

17:37.90

joshnl

Um, and.

 

17:42.68

Court Desautels

And it's ah first I think the easiest low-hanging fruit is just kind of changing the public perception of what food is.

 

17:48.68

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, definitely. That's yeah, like you mentioned, educating people like educating in schools and young kids like I think that's something that for many different, many different things that is something we can do. Really add more into like the kid's school life with many things and how we're teaching the younger generation things that we may have not known or things that we've discovered during our lifetimes so we can.

 

18:11.87

Court Desautels

Um, yeah.

 

18:27.13

joshnl

Make things better for them and make things better for the future too. So my next question is are there any certain types or kinds of foods you try to implement in menus for your restaurants?

 

18:32.12

Court Desautels

That's it.

 

18:45.43

Court Desautels

Any type of food. Yeah I think we were you know we're always asking ourselves. You know what local food is. What does it mean? Um, so you know we're looking at.

 

18:45.85

joshnl

Yeah, types are kinds of foods or.

 

19:01.11

Court Desautels

You know we look at you know in the past you know, kind of organic and the value of organic foods and you know what does that mean and is it's um, you know what's ah, what's a value to it and then started going to that back into because you can get a you know? a. Um, you know factory farm that produces organic foods right? is any what's a nutrient nutrient density from it was supposed to say a locally Gros produced farm that has just been farming and they yeah they may use a fertilizer of or a herbicide or or a pesticide on there is there. What's.

 

19:27.80

joshnl

Um.

 

19:39.92

Court Desautels

You know where the regulations are. How are things being used differently and we start looking at you know practices such as regenerative agriculture and going. Okay, you know they may not be classified as organic but they are doing all the right things for the soil and rotational crops and they're providing more. You know about soil health things along those lines where they have to use less inputs to produce the products so we started looking at those things and in some of the items of personing you know if it's wildfish or farm fish. For example, is Osha wise accredited?

 

20:11.28

joshnl

Mhm.

 

20:17.98

Court Desautels

You know it is a hothouse grown from there. What's a nutrient content of things so that would be on the on the you know on the procurement part and then when we actually look at implementing foods going. Okay, what are some of the what you know, indigenous foods to Canada. So. Yeah, we started looking at you know What are what's the fish. What's the meat? You know what vegetables are. What are the grains that we use and you know you know incorporating you know wild rice you know and how do we make that more you know easier for people to accept on ah on a.

 

20:44.40

joshnl

Mhm.

 

20:56.51

Court Desautels

Pretty you know and ah, very ah people with you know, lack of better word. Um, you know base palates. So maybe a lot of people haven't had wild rice before and they're going to try wild rice and they like regular rice. They're going to be like whoa. This is a lot different. So then how do we.

 

21:09.10

joshnl

Um.

 

21:14.91

Court Desautels

How do we soften the grain and those types of things? How do we incorporate it into things that are more familiar to them? How do we utilize you know barley? For example, we don't use rice but we use a barley risotto instead of using boreo rice.

 

21:17.37

joshnl

Mhm.

 

21:34.40

Court Desautels

And how do we incorporate those things? So how are you? How do you use local ingredients? Um, classical Canadian ingredients. You know like lentils and you know items like that where.

 

21:49.32

Court Desautels

Where we can incorporate them into the kind of everyday flavors that people are comfortable with.

 

21:57.39

joshnl

Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I've encountered like so my friends or people I know like they have foods that they're very strongly against and they have foods that they glove with. Every part of their body and it's interesting to see the difference between wild rice and like the rice you get in stores like white or brown rice. How different they can taste or feel in the mouth and how that affects people.

 

22:24.88

Court Desautels

Um, yes.

 

22:30.46

joshnl

Tasting it, liking it or like in a restaurant ordering it again? Um yeah.

 

22:32.48

Court Desautels

Yeah, and so co on it too right? And that's a thing and you know you know wild rice isn't even really a rice. It's a you know it's a grain and it's yeah, just yeah, just you know once again again set down to food literacy and just kind of.

 

22:40.17

joshnl

Um, yeah, um.

 

22:51.87

Court Desautels

You know, not not taking a local approach to food as an elitist piece of going here's how we can incorporate local foods into our unfamiliar local foods into everyday cooking recipes.

 

23:05.31

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, like I've I've noticed, there's so many like different restaurants even just downtown here and there's so many different kinds of foods like.

 

23:22.88

joshnl

There's like there's lots of Italian places. They're like breakfast places. There's like comfort food places and it's interesting to see how some restaurants have maybe more or less the same food. But how they go about making that dish and turning it into something like oh The. Insert restaurant here special of this dish or whatever. Um, yeah, um to my next question is what do you see as the role of food if any on conceptions on Canadian National identity?

 

23:43.94

Court Desautels

Um, yeah.

 

24:00.20

Court Desautels

Sure Sorry repeat that it's what I see as can foods into concessions.

 

24:08.40

joshnl

Um, ah what do you see as the role of food if any on conceptions of Canadian identity?

 

24:12.88

Court Desautels

Exception of my Canadian identity. Well I see you know I think it touches on a little but I alluded to earlier is that you know Canada's a young country really built on settlers so that so so that. You know you have so many different sections you look at the East Coast with, you know, very much Scottish. Um, you know very Scottish Irish that type of um style of cooking.

 

24:52.70

Court Desautels

Um, very maritime-style foods and seafood base Quebec with the French influence right? It's almost like we have these individual countries to Ontario which is a huge melting pot of everything from and you know Italian and Portuguese and Chinese and.

 

24:53.36

joshnl

Mhm.

 

25:00.10

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

25:10.17

Court Desautels

And Indian is such a huge huge mix. Um huge melting pot here and then you look at Scandinavian and you know Eastern European and the prairies the influence there and then you have the you know Japanese influence. Um.

 

25:24.25

joshnl

Um.

 

25:29.53

Court Desautels

Asian influence on the West Coast as well too and then obviously looking at the indigenous aspect which is finally getting some recognition and and and talking about. So it's.

 

25:30.47

joshnl

Mhm.

 

25:37.99

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

25:43.93

Court Desautels

You know there's tons of influences and I think you're starting to see that you know I hate using the word fusion but it is a fusion like if there's anywhere to talk about fusion of foods. Yeah, you know, maybe unintentionally, that's what represents Canada to me, you know people coming here utilizing ingredients that they had not.

 

25:50.89

joshnl

Um.

 

26:03.14

Court Desautels

Before they may not have access to certain spices, etc and making things work here and that's where you saw a lot of a law of adoption of multi-use of cultural influences and making of dishes and and restaurants.

 

26:07.21

joshnl

Um, again.

 

26:19.78

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, like even um I think I may have touched on this earlier. You may have touched on this earlier but like with the different like with the different it's like countries inside of a country and it's it's interesting with how. How wide Canada is and how there's all the different cultures that have landed in Canada and settled in Canada and made Canada what Canada is and how there's so many. Definitive um sort of I guess food styles um all across the country. Yeah.

 

27:02.19

Court Desautels

Yeah, what is well look at this and yeah, look at the size of North America comparative to yeah and how many countries there you know there's 2 countries in you know, 3 countries in North America and then there's however, many European countries um in there that all have their own influence.

 

27:11.53

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

27:18.54

Court Desautels

And we have to treat it like that. We can't just say this: what Canadian food is Canadian food is ah it's based on landscape really and and settlements right? And even if you looked at indigenous culture and you know completely you know.

 

27:29.80

joshnl

Um.

 

27:35.85

Court Desautels

Lots are different on each side. There's different foods that were available from different diets that people had. There's 2 crops that they were eating from the front, you know, looking at corn and beans and squasheties and berries and.

 

27:36.84

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

27:54.66

Court Desautels

You know wildlife you know it varies across and I think it's just a symptom of what you have around. You are what defines their culture where you're yeah.

 

28:00.53

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I Definitely agree. There's lots of lots of different foods and places with different and different geographies. Um.

 

28:16.43

joshnl

Ah, the next question is what impacts did COVID-19 have on the Canadian food system and eating in general?

 

28:25.20

Court Desautels

Yeah, well you know I think there's, you know, kind of pros and cons to the Covid impact of the food. You know, really disrupted food and you know the supply chain. It threw everything in ah ah you know we realize how much.

 

28:33.73

joshnl

Mhm.

 

28:42.60

Court Desautels

For example, restaurants consume and impact a local food economy because you know the amount of dairy and meats and you know grains that were not being consumed in restaurants they had to find all their different outlets to get products.

 

28:55.39

joshnl

Mhm.

 

29:01.31

Court Desautels

To the consumers and consumers as well too started looking at you know, just look at the bread like there's everybody who started making bread the sourdough craze or or people realize I can't get yease to make anything so it's like well you don't need yeast to make bread. You know you can use natural yeast and people.

 

29:09.53

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

29:18.71

Court Desautels

People gravitated towards those things but we started you know it is more of a home cooking renaissance again of people learning to make food at home and it's out of necessity and generally any disruption in.

 

29:18.90

joshnl

Mhm.

 

29:35.17

Court Desautels

In any culture and anywhere around the world and how we develop as society unfortunately is usually in a time of crisis. That's how population growth happens. That's how farming needs to be. It's pressures on your surroundings around your ecosystem that force you to think outside the box of what what? what was normally?

 

29:43.25

joshnl

Mhm.

 

29:54.10

Court Desautels

Readily available to you. It is a natural survival Instinct is what causes these things. So you know it did force people to think differently to access what they had in their covers. People didn't have the head to eat. Ah, they had a focus on a budget. Um. So yeah, it had a massive massive impact. You know it impacted us in the restaurants that we were purchasing. We said you know we don't need all these items on them any we don't need to have all these different ingredients and products we need to be more streamlined because we weren't able to access you know at any time 25% of the products that we would.

 

30:17.72

joshnl

Mhm.

 

30:31.83

Court Desautels

Normally have So oh that you know we became we we started to simplify simplify the operation simplify what we were putting on the plates just to know that you know there could be disruptions in the future and we need to mitigate those things.

 

30:51.44

joshnl

Do you think? Um, if Covid didn't happen. Your restaurants would still be like minimalizing dishes like we're streamlining them or do you think that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for covid?

 

31:05.78

Court Desautels

Um, it's a good question. I think you know as restaurant tours we're always looking at efficiencies and how to drive things down. Um you know we've you know would we've seen labor increases. You know as labor increases.

 

31:12.92

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

31:19.86

Court Desautels

You know if we want to keep food costs down. We make more ingredients in the restaurants. You know, not more ingredients but we you know we make more more items from scratch. Um at labor cross increase we try to find out where some more efficiency brings those items in so if there was.

 

31:22.69

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

31:29.93

joshnl

Um, of course.

 

31:37.13

Court Desautels

You know we do fresh cut fries in a restaurant while there you know now we're going to spend you know someone's going to get spent $16 and you know fifty-five cents which is ah you know a dishwasher job essentially to punch aos ah at down at downtime.

 

31:48.22

joshnl

Mhm.

 

31:54.91

Court Desautels

You know there is a company that just does it for us. They can be brought in fresh. We have a fresh cut fry and those companies like that start popping up because they're looking for efficiencies you um, still yeah, it's a.

 

31:56.55

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

32:01.78

joshnl

Mhm.

 

32:09.38

Court Desautels

I Think ah I think not to this same degree that the speed of what had happened but I think I think we would have still found more efficiencies and I think that's also depends on where the climate of your organization is if you're looking to.

 

32:14.31

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

32:24.36

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

32:26.80

Court Desautels

Yeah, an organization you need to take out. You know you have to remove variables that can impact from store to store. So it's a yeah, it's a tough one. But I think we would not have noticed the rate of speed of what had happened.

 

32:35.41

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

32:42.84

joshnl

Okay, yeah I feel like that's a common theme across many things that were affected by COVID-19 like maybe these things would have happened but it wouldn't have happened so incredibly fast.

 

32:55.23

Court Desautels

Um.

 

33:02.11

joshnl

It was as a result of everything that happened um in the three-ish years to 3 years that we were most heavily affected by covid. Um.

 

33:17.37

Court Desautels

Um.

 

33:20.92

joshnl

My next question is more of a fun one. Um, suppose you have a one-year contract for a job in Rural Nigeria. Is there any Canadian food that you'd miss and in what sense is this Canadian food?

 

33:36.56

Court Desautels

Sorry, you cut up there for a second key just to review that.

 

33:40.12

joshnl

Um, oh yeah, um suppose you have a one-year contract for a job in Rural Nigeria. Is there any Canadian food that you'd miss and in what sense is this Canadian food?

 

33:53.42

Court Desautels

Um, a Canadian food that I would miss Oh man.

 

34:02.82

Court Desautels

You know the thing that I would probably know depending on my circumstances. Did you know, fresh fish like I love to fish? I'm sure I can do that in Nigeria too. Um, but you know.

 

34:12.56

joshnl

Mhm.

 

34:21.37

Court Desautels

I Love eating bass and Perch. Those were great. Great fish I would probably miss just that whole experience. Um, and I think you know I know I love beef and specifically knowing the places like the farms where I can get it from.

 

34:22.78

joshnl

Yeah.

 

34:40.78

Court Desautels

Um, like I deal with why you ranch quite a bit and just cooked up some beautiful grass-fed um ribies the other night that were just phenomenal and I think I would miss. I Just kind of miss that because I just know the flavor of that beef is so much different than and everywhere else.

 

34:56.12

joshnl

Mhm.

 

35:00.19

Court Desautels

Like those are the kind of pieces but I'm sure gonna be a lot different. You know the lettuce that I buy. I live in Laura and I always buy the salad Days greens. It's like to me it is the best greens on the planet. I just love it. I just can't get enough of it. Um, and I think you know. Those things are more or less just knowing the familiarity of the products but to me, it's also exciting to go eat somewhere else too because that's what I love to trouble and but I think yeah I think just more to sense.

 

35:25.24

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

35:35.60

Court Desautels

Relationship the emotional connection that I have with the places that I'm buying um would be something I'd Miss or something I would look forward to having when home.

 

35:42.14

joshnl

Um, okay, okay, yeah, that's not not what I was expecting but it's a different take on the question that I feel is something that. The other people that we had the um the pleasure of doing a speed date with with their show biographies I I Actually really I'm really intrigued by our answer I wasn't I wasn't um, like I wasn't thinking that there would be an answer. Um, sort of as yours was for this question I was like whenever I read this question and looked at it I think oh my my answer would be like a certain thing of food like boutine or whatever. But I guess with your help.

 

36:31.45

Court Desautels

Yeah, yeah.

 

36:36.69

joshnl

Um, with your line of work. It's a different way of looking at it and could yield as it did a different kind of answer.

 

36:42.95

Court Desautels

Yeah, to me, it's the motive behind it all, like the purpose of why you're purchasing something or why you know you buy commodity stuff right? Don't get me wrong, I have two young kids and we buy whatever and but for me the things that Dan knows the most are.

 

36:51.30

joshnl

Um.

 

37:02.90

Court Desautels

Is more or less the pleasure of seeing somebody and getting something from a little more knowing The people's food that I'm eating is what would stand out to me the most just not having that personal connection to that.

 

37:18.29

joshnl

Um, yeah I Yeah like it's a different way of looking at it when you have a personal connection to like the food or where it comes from as opposed to just the connection of oh this is this is what I'm going to eat. Get my nutrients and fill my stomach and make me happy if I'm being a little grumpy because I'm angry. Um, or hungry. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting take on the question. Um, I just have a couple more questions left. Um, but. The next question is your father has had a long career in the restaurant business teaching physicians at the University of Guelph and founded the neighbourhood group of companies a couple decades ago. What? Um, what was your experience growing up? Around your father's career and going into sort of the same line of work that he did.

 

38:22.24

Court Desautels

Yeah, it's a well. It's an interesting journey. I never really you know I was exposed to food at a very young age. Never really appreciated because that's just what I grew up around. I was actually embarrassed a lot of times with the things that we were eating. I've had friends over. Um. Somehow I would get made fun of because my parents love making curries. I know I would. I would be made fun of by friends, even their parents because I'd smell like curry if I got in the car after eating dinner and things like that. So I almost found it embarrassing to eat some of the things I would just say can we just have something normal? Like you know I just want a hamburger you know I don't want like I don't have like a beef burger or coco vin or you know Chickentikamasala or you know whatever like I just so I kind of gravitate away from. Eating different things is to try to be more generic to fit in and then that kind of changed my father's perspective on restaurants. I really liked the restaurants but I didn't. I didn't, you know, appreciate all the effort that was going into sourcing the products and everything else. Hardships would be associated with that as well, too, trying to go in against the norm. You know, having craft beers on top if everything wasn't actually until I started traveling more and I was living in Australia where I really appreciated how and we started realizing that you know North America is the only.

 

39:35.38

joshnl

Um. Um, yeah.

 

39:42.36

joshnl

Oh.

 

39:51.55

Court Desautels

Place in the world that prides itself on where it can get food from. It's like there's an elitus sink. We. We get the best olive oil in and we use the finest cheeses and the wines that we bring in from here and we pride ourselves on our imported beer list and oh we bring in. Ah, you know Chilean sea bass and all these things because we're so powerful and you know when you eat everywhere else in the world if you eat in Europe it's like you just buy stuff that's around you you eat. What's at the market when you go to Asia it's the same thing you just eat. That's what every town has.

 

40:14.80

joshnl

Mhm yeah.

 

40:30.15

Court Desautels

You know cuisine style and that's what you go there for and people are very prideful in that in Australia it was you know local food. I was working in a restaurant and I remember the chef saying to the chef I just love the fact that you're highlighting all these farms here. This is really cool. So what my dad does is he looked at me like I was crazy and said. Said well where the hell else? Do you think I'm going to get her from and it was just a perception I was like so we're the weird ones and everyone else is normal on how they perceive food but in North America, it's you know? Somebody has a bad crop in Guatemala for bananas. Well, guess what we go to Costa Rica instead um and in Australia they had a bad crop. A typhoon came in and destroyed the banana plantations. Bananas went up to you know $15 a kilo and.

 

41:13.67

joshnl

Mhm wow.

 

41:20.39

Court Desautels

And Australians were lined up at the grocery stores to buy the bananas to say that they were supporting their farmers and everything else and and it's just like those things that just kind of dawned on me they were and there was also legislation was passed about the origins of fish because they found out like a barramundi which is like a prize. Australian fish was actually being imported in from you know the Mekong Delta and kind of in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam and people were losing their minds about something that they were being told but in Canada we like yeah like we don't care where a salmon comes from.

 

41:52.65

joshnl

Um, I can imagine.

 

41:56.42

joshnl

Yeah, yeah.

 

41:59.53

Court Desautels

Like we don't know nobody cares and within three months legislation was changed there and those origins of fish had to be put on mandatory people are even throwing rocks through fishmonger stores because they were being duped. You know that Australians have a lot of issues. Okay I'm I can say that is right I'm half Australian but the.

 

42:07.59

joshnl

Um.

 

42:16.37

joshnl

Um.

 

42:18.71

Court Desautels

But very prideful and I find a lot of people are prideful and in the North America we're more prideful of where things came from the distance that travelled to get there as opposed to sorting locally and that changed my perspective and I came back in 2006 and we opened up Borealis and that's really what the.

 

42:34.23

joshnl

Mhm.

 

42:39.49

Court Desautels

Um, it really dawned on me the importance of buying local and the and the and the shift in mindset that needs to happen in order for us to be very proud of what we grow here and to support our growers and our fishers and our you know producers you know our farmers.

 

42:56.30

joshnl

Mhm.

 

42:58.14

Court Desautels

You know it's something to celebrate um not look at and as it's a yeah me. Oh yeah, yeah, you know you know us beef is better than Canadian beef or you know, etc. We should be more proud and the more proud we are.

 

43:10.27

joshnl

Um.

 

43:14.91

Court Desautels

The products become better and better.

 

43:17.63

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, it's yeah I've I've I've always wondered like how um.

 

43:30.43

joshnl

Um, I Guess how food is perceived and like I hear I remember I like every time I go to the grocery store. There's science like oh these this is from this place. This is from that. Oh, This is from all the way over there and Like. We have so many foods imported from all over the world and it's like there's not a whole lot of food that comes from the country but we have all this food coming from outside. And as you said we like where we pride there's pride in um, getting food from all these far far reaches and how it's It's like I guess impacted how.

 

44:25.28

joshnl

We have our views on food. I Thought those were really interesting.

 

44:30.40

Court Desautels

Um, yeah, why? Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, we do. We think things are completely different here.

 

44:40.45

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, like my dad he's he's he travels a lot for work and he's travelled when he was younger, but every time he travels he loves tasting the food and he always comes back and tells us like oh this, how different it is from here. Um. And it's always interesting to hear what? what he says when he comes back and when he travels to all these places like when he goes to Europe or South America or Africa wherever he goes and how dipping the food is there and how ah how there's also sorting more of a. More of a set um food for that country. But as we talked about in the interview previously in Canada there's not just one set. Yeah, it's different sets and how.

 

45:28.56

Court Desautels

No sense. Yeah. You said yeah I Guess our whole claim to fame is poutine, right? like that's the one like that's wound Canadian food which is kind of like rising gravy with cheese on I was like okay now, delicious. But

 

45:36.49

joshnl

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

45:46.11

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot different here than what I've seen in the world and it's quite fascinating sometimes to see how different Canada is and it being such a young country.

 

46:02.46

Court Desautels

Yeah.

 

46:04.74

joshnl

Compared to Europe and Africa and how old everything is and how they sort of more have I guess like their identity hashed out as opposed to Canada but it's also nice that in Canada we have. We don't have one food identity. We have multiple and yeah, yeah, um, so my last question is I saw in when I was doing my research for bibliography that you did a Ctv Interview um

 

46:25.59

Court Desautels

Yeah, have multiple? Yeah, that's something not great right?

 

46:42.20

joshnl

And in it, you said the restaurant injury industry is one of the only industries that you can book ahead of time. But if you decide not to go. You're not out any money and I also saw in that same interview that at the time you were looking to implement credit card fees for no shows and cancellations. Um, um, in less than 24 hours is that something you're still wanting to do or is it something you've sort of stepped away from?

 

47:05.77

Court Desautels

Ah.

 

47:11.55

Court Desautels

Um, yeah, we actually just talked about it yesterday again. Um, it's something that we'll do at the first special event. So the New Year's eaves of even Independence Day are those types of things where a lot of time and effort goes into planning on the reservations for every day.

 

47:20.10

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

47:25.44

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

47:28.56

Court Desautels

Somebody coming in on a Friday night to me, it still creates a barrier to entry now if my restaurants were full every single night. Um, I would charge for a reservation because I don't here. But if I have empty seats you know Friday Saturday nights were full but you know.

 

47:40.32

joshnl

Um.

 

47:47.38

Court Desautels

People, there's things change so it's not something I'm looking to implement but for special occasions yes, whereas a special menu. There's a lot of planning going on and so we're doing that on New Year's Eve. We're just implementing it on a reservation system but I just booked a reservation in Toronto on Monday.

 

47:54.29

joshnl

Um, okay, okay.

 

48:05.98

Court Desautels

And you know Monday at lunch you wouldn think it be very busy and and I was told yeah it's ah how to put my credit card number in and it's a $20 fee for for any cancellation within 24 hours because it's the empty seats that cost you base your labor and you base your your people on guest counts coming in.

 

48:09.99

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

48:15.13

joshnl

Um I.

 

48:20.90

joshnl

Mhm.

 

48:25.74

Court Desautels

And it does have a big impact on restaurants. It's just you can't be in a smaller town. You can't um.

 

48:35.48

Court Desautels

You can't be in a smaller town and implement a big city thinking people just get their backs up to it if it's if it's common practice in Toronto and then in about 5 years you can start implementing it in your own city.

 

48:41.90

joshnl

Mhm.

 

48:52.82

joshnl

Um.

 

48:53.40

Court Desautels

And restaurants need a band together. I think to say hey are we all going to do this? Yes, Yeah, let's do this and and and go for that. So.

 

48:59.39

joshnl

Um, I Do think if let's say 3 restaurants here were to implement the late fees and the charges Do you think and others didn't do you think that would um. Make people not want to go to them as much or do you think?? yeah.

 

49:20.58

Court Desautels

Yes, I do because I don't think people make restaurant reservations and for example, I made a reservation on Monday for 6 people. One of my friends is very unreliable. You know that's just who they are. Cancel plans say that's just you know that's that's them I've learned that through Ruben's friends through high school I can't rely on them for anything great person and can't rely on them and so so I'm nervous about Monday going am I going to be out for him and his partner at forty bucks because they don't show up or they have to cancel or something happens or only one of them shows up and everything else I did so. So yeah, it would make me more aware of who I'm going to go out with and be more selective of people and I've ultimately been like where's a place that I don't have to do that too? Everybody was doing that then I wouldn't have a choice.

 

49:59.96

joshnl

Um.

 

50:07.51

joshnl

Um, okay, okay.

 

50:17.48

Court Desautels

And then I think restaurants adapt and say okay, we'll split up your reservation into you know tables of 2 and you can split the cost of the thing but 3 credit cards who knows? But yeah I think it would deter people. It's a barrier for entry right now, especially in an economic climate that is not.

 

50:26.14

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

50:34.50

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

50:36.43

Court Desautels

And people don't want to look at an extra fee right? People are already upset if they are charging for 2 s. People are already upset with everybody charging you more for food.

 

50:45.80

joshnl

Mhm.

 

50:47.40

Court Desautels

It Costs more to eat out than everything else, so people are more selective and if there's a reason for them not to choose it I think that would be 1 of them.

 

50:54.25

joshnl

Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah, I remember like sometimes I've gone walking and then I'll stumble across a restaurant and I'll look at the menu if they have it posted outside and sometimes I'm deterred away because of the prices and.

 

51:12.44

Court Desautels

Um, of course.

 

51:12.94

joshnl

Being a university student I can only afford so much um, with everything and it's it's um, like I've I've certainly noticed over the years like even with big chains like Mcdonald's the price of everything has gone up and it's like.

 

51:25.40

Court Desautels

Yeah, much you gave me 1-second concept and discovered drinking. Yeah sorry, I have somebody here to see.

 

51:30.79

joshnl

Oh yeah, yeah.

 

51:41.60

joshnl

Um, or is yeah like yeah

 

51:43.74

Court Desautels

But it is but it's but it's normal for if I go to? ah yeah, and a bunch of people went to a Tool concert last night and you know that it depends where you want to sit. You're going to spend a lot more money and I'll book a flight. You know I have to pay a deposit.

 

51:49.67

joshnl

Um, oh wow.

 

51:55.22

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

52:00.93

Court Desautels

If I book a train, I know everything is paid ahead. You pay ahead for your tickets ahead for your travel you pay in advance for everything restaurants. You don't and you know so you know even dry cleaning like everything and pretty much energy service.

 

52:04.62

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

52:17.34

joshnl

Um, yeah.

 

52:19.37

Court Desautels

You pay ahead the only ones that don't are like the hairdressing and like a hairdresser you don't pay ahead. You know, really pay the inflation fee. So it's a very various very similar industries in that respect. There are kind of the outliers compared to everybody else.

 

52:21.53

joshnl

Mhm yeah.

 

52:32.91

joshnl

Yeah, it's interesting like the interview that I read. I mean sure I've noticed that you don't pay after you eat or if you like to cancel a reservation. There's no, There's no consequences but I really didn't hit me. Until I read that Article. It's like oh Wow this like it really is the only plate-like sort of industry where you don't have repercussions for backing out of something that you've said oh I'm going to be here. We're going to do this. We'll be here this time this day.

 

52:52.67

Court Desautels

Um, yeah.

 

53:05.28

Court Desautels

Yeah, yeah, that was yeah near's eve and stuff like that we sometimes will have a hundred cancellations or equivalent of a hundred gas cancel throughout the whole you know month-long of promoting it.

 

53:10.67

joshnl

Is.

 

53:19.10

joshnl

Mhm.

 

53:20.51

Court Desautels

People sign up then they change they sign up they change and so we're going to see this here. What it's like people committed to it but sorry say too is like well someone has covid and you're like well too bad. You know you got to come to the restaurant anyways and make everybody sick or you're going to lose your twenty bucks

 

53:26.35

joshnl

Um, yeah, yeah.

 

53:36.44

joshnl

Um, yeah yeah I just have 1 more question and that is what is your favorite ice cream flavor?

 

53:39.19

Court Desautels

Yeah, I have to have some kind of logical thinking as well around it.

 

53:46.72

Court Desautels

Um, for my favorite ice cream flavour Gosh I don't really eat ice cream I like sorbets. Um, so gosh a lemon sorbet you know.

 

53:55.50

joshnl

Oh yeah.

 

54:03.95

joshnl

Um I Love I Love that.

 

54:05.82

Court Desautels

That would be um, yeah, that would be kind of my favourite thing but getting weird no weirder and stuff you know stuff. We're making a restaurant that would put like basil in it or 2 strawberry basil. That really good strawberry basil sorbet is probably my favorite.

 

54:15.65

joshnl

Mhm.

 

54:24.18

joshnl

Um, ever heard of basil and ice cream before?

 

54:25.38

Court Desautels

What beautiful, Absolutely beautiful. Yeah yeah, Basil and strawberries is a wonderful combination even with a very nice ah balsamic vinegar if you ate strawberries with a really high end aged like age Balsamic. Um. And some fresh basil just chopped up finally and just sprinkled a little bit over Top. It's a beautiful, beautiful food combination. Yeah yeah, it's a combination I wouldn't you know the I want to be put in the ah.

 

54:54.34

joshnl

Um, I've never thought to do that with ice cream before.

 

55:04.23

Court Desautels

The vinegar in ah like Balsamic vinegar in the ice cream itself but in age balsamic vinegars quite can be quite sweet. So think of it like an ice ice wine but like vinegar still has the acidity but there's a sweetness to it as well too and it complements the you know sweetness of ah of the ice cream. They kind of counter.

 

55:12.88

joshnl

Um, okay.

 

55:23.28

Court Desautels

Counterbalance each other.

 

55:24.81

joshnl

Okay, um, and before we conclude the interview, is there anything that we have discussed that you would like to elaborate on or anything that we would like to address that wasn't covered in this interview? Okay, great. Um.

 

55:33.33

Court Desautels

Now I think we've covered ordering.

 

55:40.39

joshnl

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us today. I would also like to thank the University Of Guelph Department of History and McLaughlin Library for making this image possible. In addition, we are grateful for the support of Kyle Ritchie, the media student technician and Curtis Sasser, the head of archival and special collections and thanks to all of you for listening to this episode of culinary milestones and kid eating and cooking. Um, we hope to see you again and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview and doing this interview for me. Um, I really appreciate it and it was very insightful into more of the. Restaurant Use side of food and as I said I know that I reached out to and I found it interesting that you were more on the business side of everything else and people were doing more on like cookbooks or actual cooking and being in the kitchen and working. Hands-on with the food as opposed to you being more with the yeah um, sort of the business and then promotion I really thought that was quite cool.

 

56:44.40

Court Desautels

Yeah, well now I appreciate you taking the time to ash as well and it was a great great discussion. I appreciate the thought that's gone into this really trying to dig in a little bit deeper of what makes food. Ah, important in Canada.